Hazard a guess?

[alysten]

Thanks to hsifeng  for the post to the online book!

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to a time period and culture on this dress? It is in the section labeled Männer- und Frauentracht aus Italien. But is it really Italian? Is the over skirt cartridge pleated or tucked?

Edit: And apparently I need to add a thanks to mmcnealy as well for the link.

Comments

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

If you don't have Marion on your friends list, I would 'ping' her to get a translation of the text at the top of the page. This does seem to be in the section of the book labled 'Italian', but the last word in the phrase above her head almost looks like it could be "Bavaria".

Don't quote me on that.

Other styles that appear to be pretty clearly Italian in this section (at least by title) don't 'look Italian' by the standard costume measure. That is 1/2 the fun of these 'regional costume' guides; Finding something new! *wink*

"Standard": http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00011752/images/index.html?id=00011752&fip=205.155.151.30&no=&seite=156

"Non-Standard": http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0001/bsb00011752/images/index.html?id=00011752&fip=205.155.151.30&no=6&seite=162

[alysten.livejournal.com]

With the blurring of modern border lines... I might actually see how it could be either Bavarian or Italian.

The non- standard costume is very, very cool. I may just have to make one...or three.

[femkederoas.livejournal.com]

I'm lovin' this book. The Frisian costumes are particularly intriguing.

I do find the artist seems to have a strange fascination with brocade that may or may not have anything to do with reality. The brocade-patterned aprons in particular have me scratching my head.

That said, it's a heck of a lot of fin, innit it?

[alysten.livejournal.com]

You are talking to a person who has made costumes based on allegorical paintings, just because they were to much fun to pass up.

These are no exceptions. I am hoping that there is some basis is reality though. These costumes are beautiful.

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

I am all for making things that are ‘non-standard’; I just ask that you make sure you are actually making something that has a shot at having actually existed first! *grin* After all, if this book is the only place you can find that item, the likelihood of it being based on a real gown goes downhill pretty fast.

[alysten.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. Aside from my armor, I try to make the rest of my clothing compliant.Or at least researchable.

[mmcnealy.livejournal.com]

It wouldn't say Bavaria in a period manuscript, it would say Bayern.

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

*chuckle* I know, I know. I am preaching the the choir!

[hsifeng.livejournal.com]

See, told you that you know more than I do! (*grin*)

So, any thoughts on what the caption on the link that Alysten picked says?

[mmcnealy.livejournal.com]

The caption says "Im Brugua unnd Barusa" or "Im Brugua unnd Baruta"

Based on a 1841 Milanese to Italian dictionary I believe it says "In Plum and Black" and that the lady is from Milan.

I think that the black petticoat is box pleated and the purple dress skirt is knife or roll pleated.

[mmcnealy.livejournal.com]

See below.

[woodwindy.livejournal.com]

OCLC claims the book itself is ca. 1500; the website says 16th-century. Nobody seems to want to get any more specific than that. :)

[mmcnealy.livejournal.com]

Sorry, forgot to put in the time period. Based on the styles I'd say 1560-1580's

[alysten.livejournal.com]

That is the time period I was guessing, and where I was starting.

[alysten.livejournal.com]

We are probably looking at a separate bodice and skirt then?

[alysten.livejournal.com]

Im thinking mmcnealy might be right about her guess that it is 1560-1580's or so.